6769. (Lord Hugh Cecil) When you first went to the Rhondda Valley in 1879, what was the general spiritual condition; was it satisfactory or not? - There was a good deal of drunkenness and indifference among the people, and very few ministers there then in connection with our church and in connection with the Nonconformist churches, and we had very few buildings.

6770. You would describe the last 28 years, the years you have been there, as years of spiritual progress in the Valley? - Yes, a good deal. There is a much larger number of ministers and places of worship......

6771. Would you regard Canon Lewis's ministry as valuable during the years you have had experience of him? - Well.I myself count him as an angel in disguise coming to the Valley, and I hope he will live many years to carry his influence there yet. He spurred us all on, and we follow his example; that is, we try to, but we are far from doing it. I have never known such a man in my experience.

[As a footnote, Canon Lewis remained in the Rhondda until his death in 1922.]

6772. Just one question about languages. Supposing I, not being able to speak a word of Welsh, found myself in the Rhondda Valley, should I be able to get on with English; should I be sufficiently understood? - Oh, dear, yes. I have not come across in my parish any man, women or child that cannot speak English in some way or other and understand people speaking English. Even the old men and women can jabber, as we say, English pretty well. I have not come across, in my experience in houses and so on, any Welsh man or woman or child that cannot speak a little English.

6773. Do you visit much yourself? - Yes, a good deal, from house to house.

6774. What is the nature of parish visiting? - We go sometimes in connection with our church to explain to the people various things and when we want to see if there are new lodgers coming. There are people coming to our Valley from all parts of England, Scotland, Ireland, and North Wales, and at the next visit it may be there are two or three fresh ones in the house, or the whole lot of them have left, the people of the house and all.

6775. It is a very migratory population? - Yes, very much coming and going.

6777. Do you find that you have to speak English or Welsh more often? - Oh, English. Our young boys and girls somehow or other are too proud to speak Welsh if they know a little of it. They call the Welsh people who speak Welsh 'Welsh people.' They are Welsh, and there is that bit of pride to be an English person and to be able to speak English; that is my experience. The tendancy of the people is that they desire English services and English conversation, and everything in that way more and more. Of course we have plenty of Welsh people too, and we talk Welsh to them.

6778. You have spoken of the extensive church building that has gone on in the Valley. Has that ever been done with borrowed money to any extent? - Yes, in some instances. For instance, Christ Church, Ferndale; when we opened we had a few hundred pounds debt on it. We borrowed the money from various persons; we borrowed £10 from one, and £20 from another.....and so on, then we would fix upon a sum, say £10, and we would have a tea party, and pay this £10 back.....and so on.

6779. But you are not able to mortgage the site of the church differently from any other building? - No; that is a great drawback to us in the church. If there was a fund in the diocese from which we could borrow, and which would allow us to mortgage our churches, we should be able to build a number then on promises.

6780. It is therefore less easy to build a church than any other sort of building, from that point of view? - Much. Of course, then you could build a church, and would not think when you built it when you are going to pay for it. If we had that sysytem it would be very much easier for us, and our children and children's children could pay for it gradually when they could, and then we would have a big, nice church built at once, and accommodation for our people; but we in the church cannot go on in that way. I only wish we could. I want now to enlarge my parish church to hold 50 or 100 people more, and I should like to have £1,000 to-morrow to enlarge it; or if I was allowed to enlarge it I would allow those who would pay for it in the future.

6781. That is a little beyond my question. In this respect the Church is less fortunate than the Nonconformist bodies? - Oh, much. As a rule, they build a church and mortgage the site, and pay as they can afterwards.