8976. I do not know if I am using the proper expression: you have been a minister at the church from the foundation of this particular building, but there was a cause there before the church was built; is that right? - Yes; there was a cause there in the end of 1866, bu the church was not organised as a church until I went there.

8977. That was in 1869? - Yes, both the church and myself were received into the association at the same association meeting.

8978. That would be in 1869? - Yes.

8979. I daresay you have made a good deal of progress since 1869, and I will take, therefore, the figures of the present day after you have made all this progress. I see in your proof you begin by stating the number baptised; I have no doubt you keep a record of that? - Yes.

8980. You yourself keep it, and you are able to tell us that the number is 58? - Yes; I have got my own book here.

8982. What does 'Restored' mean? - A member is expelled for some immorality; then, after repentance, he comes back, and we restore him to full membership.

8987. Do you include in immorality the habit of drinking-intemperance? - Yes; I may say that that is the chief cause.

8988. So I guessed, and that is why I asked you the question? - After the late Revival that is the chief cause of the exclusions.

8989. I do not quite understand what you mean by 'after the Revival'? - There was a revival in 1904.

8990. I know what the Revival was, but why after the Revival should this be the chief cause? - Because we had so many brought in who were habitual drunkards, and that was the temptation, and, being tempted and enticed, they went back. Drink has been the cause of the majority by far of the cases. we have been revising, for instance, lately, and we have found that drinking has been the cause, I should say, of nine out of every ten.

9005. (Archdeacon Owen Evans) Have you a copy of the accounts of this chapel? - I have a translation of the address of the minister for 1904, and also a translation for 1905. I have translated the address and also the balance sheets.

9006. (Chairman) You Baptists, I think, have not got a Year Book, have you? - Yes, Welsh and English.

9007. You give us the members. How many members is it that you say? - 1905, according to the Adroddiad, 713.

9008. I have the Year Book for 1906? - That would be 1904 in the Addroddiad.

9012. I have got here the Baptist Handbook for 1906. Tell me if I am right that the figures which appear in that are the figures of 31st December, 1904? - Yes.

9013. I can get those figures for 1904 in the Year Book? - You can get 1904 in the 1906 Year Book, but 1905 is in the 1907 Year Book.

9014. I cannot look at 1907, but I have got them in this book which you have handed up? - Yes, those are the official church returns.

9015. This is 1904; it will do just as well; 698? - Yes; this corresponds with the Baptist Handbook now.

9016. In your proof it is 713. Where shall I find that? - In the Baptist Handbook for 1907.

9016. Have not you got a report of 1905? - Yes, I have given that to you.

9018. I find this 713 there. That is the number of members on what day? - December 31st, 1905.

9033. I see you have given us here the figures for members in 1870, 1880, 1890, 1900, and 1905? - Yes.

9034. The figures are 218, 505, 502, 518, and 713; those figures were progressive in every year except the year 1890. I see between the years 1880 and 1890 there was a small fall of three? - There was no fall; the explanation is that we formed a new church in Treorchy, and we dismissed a large number.

9040. (Sir John Williams) May I ask a question with regard to that. Did you discharge or transfer a certain number of members of your church in 1890 to form the new church; did you send the nucleus to the new church? - To Ainon, yes.

9041. How many were there? - The church at Ainon, Treorchy, was organised into a regular church in May, 1896, with 78 members, but before that for several years we had built what we call a vestry, and they had left us in order to form the nucleus of that church.

9042. How many went from your church to form the new church at Ainon? - 78 members.