6400. (Sir John Williams) In 1878 how many sittings were there in the Church schoolroom at Cymmer? - I should think somewhere about 400 odd. There is a dividing partition between them, and when that is opened two rooms can be thrown into one.

6401. It is the same room as in 1878? - Yes.

6410. What is the average attendance at St. Paul's Church? - It is not so full in the morning as it is in the evening. In the evening it is full. Very often we cannot find seating accommodation, and we are obliged to get chairs occasionally.

6411. I mean the usual attendance? - I should think they would run somewhere about half-full in the morming and full in the evening. There is accommodation for about 302.

6412. Would it be about 250 or 260 average attendance? - How do you strike the average-comparing the morning and evening?

6413. Yes? - I daresay it would run about that, but I could not say.

6414. It is an English church altogether, except that class in the Sunday-school? - Yes.

6415. Is Welsh on the decline in the parish? - Yes, I think so. My reason for that is (of course, it is only an expression of opinion) that I know of Welsh parents who, speaking Welsh themselves, speak English to their children.

6416. You heard your vicar express the same opinion yesterday? - Yes.

6417. Have there been any new chapels built in the parish during the last eight or nine years? - Yes, a great many of them.

6418. Welsh or English? - Both, I think. The Free Mission has been built and Bethania has been built.

6419. What is Bethania-a Baptist chapel? - Welsh Baptist. For how many years do you mean?

6420. Since 1895. Do you know Sion Chapel? - Yes.

6421. Is that a Baptist chapel? - Yes.

6422. That was built within that time? - I should say before.

[Not exactly so. I believe it was built in 1897.]

6423. And Pisgah? - That would be the same.

6424. That is Baptist again, since 1895? - Yes.

6425. And the Methodist Calfaria? - Yes.

6426. Since that time? - Yes.

6427. How many sittings do you think are in each of these chapels? - I could not say; I should like to tell you how they were erected.

6428. Let me finish this point first. Do you think they would seat 500? - I should think so, looking at the outward appearance.

6429. How do you account for four Welsh chapels being built in a parish which is steadily becoming English? - They are not all Welsh.

6430. Those four are Welsh, are they not?-There is an English iron hall, is there not? - The Free Mission is an English chapel.

6431. Is that the iron hall? - No, it is a stone structure.

6432. But these four chapels are Welsh? - Yes.

6433. Each of these chapels has accommodation for 500 people? - I should think so, but I could not say as a fact.

6434. You think so; that is all? - Yes.

6435. How do you account for that fact with a declining Welsh population? - Of course, I hope you would not think I would be personal, but if you take the Bethania chapel, I think that that chapel was built by a disagreement in the Sion chapel over their minister. Part broke out and went and built Bethania Chapel down at the bottom of the town. I have never understood that there was not sufficient accommodation for the two congregations before they broke out.

6436. That may be to the credit or to the discredit of the people, but the fact remains that those people thought they could build a chapel and run it, if you like to put it that way? - I believe they had disagreed with the minister in the first place.

6437. I understood what you said, but these people thought they could build a chapel and run it, so to speak? - Yes.

6438. In a parish where the Welsh language is steadily declining according to your opinion and your vicar's? - Yes; of course, the question is whether the chapel was a necessity or not.

6439. No, that is not the question; it is the fact of this chapel having been built that I am talking of? - Yes.

6440. You cannot account for it? - That is the opinion I have.

6441. That it is a quarrel;; I accept your evidence as to that? - I have said before I know of Welsh people speaking English to their children and speaking to each other in Welsh, and that gives me the opinion that Welsh is on the decline.

6442. That is the reason you think so, in spite of the fact that these four Welsh chapels were built during the last twelve years? - Which are the four Welsh chapels you speak of?

6443. Sion, Bethania, Pisgah, and Calfaria? - I should like to say that Calfaria was built in almost a similar way.

6444. By a split, do you mean? - By a division, yes.

6445. But the fact remains that the people who built Calfaria thought they could build that chapel and run it? - I have no doubt they thought so.

6446. In spite of the declension of the Welsh language? - Yes.

6449. 'Young Men's Christian Association'; is that an association which is formed by the Union of Nonconformists and Churchmen? - I think there are all classes there. I supported it because the housing accommodation is so bad in the Rhondda Valleys that there is really no place provided for young men.

6450. It is a club for young men? - Yes.

6451. The only thing I want to know is whether Churchmen and Nonconformists belong to it? - I believe so. I have joined it, and I am a Churchman.

6452. Are there many Nonconformists there? - The majority are Nonconformists.

6453. It is not a Church institution simply? - No.

6454. It is the ordinary Young Men's Christian Association all over the country? - Yes.

6455. You spoke of being friendly with everybody there? - Yes.

6456. Do you co-operate with Nonconformists in religious work? - No, I have not the time.

6457. I do not mean yourself, but is such cooperation in existence in the parish of Porth and Cymmer? - In these lines, that our churchwardens will take the chair at a good many of their meetings.

6458. What meetings? - They hold concerts occasionally and sometimes an Eisteddfod, and they will preside at those functions.

6459. Do you call these religious meetings? - The object of them is for the promotion of religion.

6460. But are they religious meetings? - I do not whether you could term an Eisteddfod a religious meeting, but it would be with that object-got up for the purpose of disseminating religion.

6461. (Chairman) You do not suggest it is devotional? - No.

6474. (asked by Professor Henry Jones) You spoke about Bethania and Calfaria as both having originated from disagreements; do you suggest there was no need for the two? - I should not think so; I could not say for a fact.

6475. Can you say anything about the way in which they are attended? - No, I could not.

6476. The the question of their origin does not throw any light as to whether they ae needed or not? - No, not as far as I know.