10016. Then 'In 1865 Bodringallt church considered itself in duty bound to start a cause at Treorchy, some two mile higher up the valley, and a few members left and established Bethania church, Treorchy, which has now a mebership of --,' that I suppose we shall find in the Year Book. It is given in the Year Book as 700, but you give it as 734. I daresay that you take it at a later period. The Year Book is 1906. That very probably means the 31st December, 1905, or possibly 1904; sometimes it is one and sometimes the other? - I think in the 1907 Year Book it is 734.

[These figures do concur. Just to clarify, the 1865 cause was at Tabernacle. Betahania was built some years later a short distanace away. What the witness did not mention, and he might not have known or even just to emphasise the work of Bodringallt, was that the founding of Tabernacle/Bethania was by members of Carmel, Treherbert and Bodringallt.]

10019. 'The Bodringallt church was chiefly instrumental in establishing a church lower down the valley at Tonypandy, the membership of which was 36 when first formed, but is now 611? - The name of the church is Ebenezer Tonypandy.

10020. In this Year Book it is 534? - In the 1907 Year Book it is 611.

[Both correct again.]

10022. Then you make a general statement as to the activity of your church, and say it has done a great deal more. I dare say it has: 'In 1867 The Bodringallt church, being still fully alive to the needs of the rapidly growing districts, decided to hold a Sunday-school at Pentre, midway between the Treorchy branch and Bodringallt, and through the kindness of Mr. David Treharne, who is now the senior deacon at Siloh church, they were enabled to use a barn for the purpose. Mr. Treharne charged no rent and all the necessary books were supplied by Mrs. Griffith Llewellyn, a Church of England lady...........A site for a chapel was forthwith secured.' You got that apparently free of rent from Mrs. Llewellyn. 'The building was proceeded with, and Siloh chapel, with an accommodation for 600, was opened in July, 1869.' I suppose you know nothing about that personally. It is only what I see in the Year Book? - The chapel is still in existence, and I measured that. I have something to say about it later on. It is used as a vestry now.

10023. Is that figure right, 600? - The seats are fixed, and by allotting the proper space (there is a large platform there) I only make it to accommodate 539.The seats will only accommodate that number.

10034..........In 1877 a larger chapel was erected-that is the present chapel? - Yes.

10036. ....Then they erected their present building to accommodate 1,000. It appears in the Year Book as accommodation for 1,000 and that is the figure you give? - I would like to qualify that. In the alterations made for putting in the organ I think we lost about 25 seats.

10038......'In 1897, the chapel was renovated and an organ put in,'...'In 1903, the old Siloh built in 1869 was altered and rendered more convenient for week-night services, and classrooms were constructed for Sunday-school purposes,'.....Can you tell me what is the accommodation in the old Siloh which is now used for week-night services? They have not left it in the condition in which it was when it was a chapel? - No; all the gallery has been converted into classrooms, and the accommodation now-I measured it last week with the architect-is 539.

10039. Is that the accommodation for the week-night services or the classes? - For week-night services and the classes. The floor area is for week-night services, and the gallery portion is for Sunday school and class purposes.

10040. What is the floor area? - I only want to see how many can attend comfortably? - 262. The platform is large, and we could put many more there, but there is seating accommodation for 262.

10046. In 1905 a mission room was built. Can you give me the accommodation in the mission room? - 180.

10047. Where do you get your figure from? - That is in the Year Book.

10048. (Sir John Williams) It is in last year's Year Book? - Yes. It was built in 1905, and the figures you have are for 1904.

10049. (Chairman) The mission room has been built since? - In 1905, yes.

10053. ........Then you say it was the minister of Siloh who brought about largely the establishment of the Ton English Congregational Church. You say the chapel was built and opened in 1870, and it will accommodate 460? - Exclusive of the vestry. There is a vestry which will accommodate 316, but it is not mentioned there.

10054. At present I am dealing with the chapel; is that in the Year Book? - The Year Book shows the chapel but it does not sow the vestry accommodation.

10055. This is Ystrad; is that the same place as Ton? - Some people call the whole of Pentre Ystrad.

[Geography around here can be pretty confusing. Bethesda, soon to be mentioned, and practically opposite this chapel is located in Ton-Pentre - sometimes called TonYstrad. The whole area is locally called 'Ton-Pentre'. However the railway station, just around the corner, was, for many years, known as Ystrad station until another station, more properly in Ystrad was built and the former then re-named as Ton-Pentre station.]

10056. It gives a total accommodation 460. That is where you got the 460 from? - Yes.

10057. 'In 1875 the churches at Bodringallt and Siloh decided to start another cause midway between them at Ton, and a vestry was built.' That I have not got here? - That refers to the Welsh cause, Bethesda; there is no account of the vestries in the Year Book.

10058. I am told there is? - There is of mission rooms, but not of vestries.

10059. (Sir John Williams) Has that vestry developed into a chapel? - This vestry I am refering to in the paragraph his Lordship has just read has developed into Bethesda chapel, which is coming later on.

10061. 'In 1876, 16 members from Bodringallt and 21 from Siloh left their respective churches and constituted a church at Ton. In 12 months the membership had increased from 37 to 133. It was then decided to build Bethesda, which was opened on Whit Monday, 1876.' Then there is the cost. 'This chapel is now in the course of re-erection, and when completed promises to be one of the handsomest edifices in the Rhondda.'....'For in addition to the chapel, which will accommodate 980'-that I should like to look at. The 980 is what it is hoped it will accommodate? - I have the contract.

10063. 'It provides accommodation for 300 on the ground floor of the vestry.' That vestry has been built, as I understand it? - It is in the course of erection.......

10064. You say 'There will be three class rooms for Sunday-school purposes, and a room will be utilized as a library, where it is hoped that the young people of the congregation will congregate nightly.' ......... 'A rapid increase having taken place in the population of Gelly in 1893, members from Bodringallt and Bethesda churches organised prayer meetings and Sunday-school from house to house. In 1895 the church was formed with 50 members, and now it numbers 214. In 1898 Bryn Seion Chapel was built with 700 sittings.' That I suppose I shall find in the Year Book? - Yes.

[The mis-spelling of 'Gelly' is delibeartye as that is how it is shown in the original text.]

10065. Each one of these chapels I suppose has its own visiting minister? - Yes, they are all full at present.

10066. Of course the mission rooms have not separate ministers? - No, it is worked as part of the Siloh church by the minister and the elders.

10067. I have verified your 700 for Bryn Seion Chapel. 'From the above we find that Bodringallt church has been of very material assistance in the establishment of the following churches,' and then you set out: '(a) Bethania, Treorchy, which has a membership of 734; (b) Ebenezer, Tonypandy, 611; (c) Siloh, Pentre, 603; (d) Bethesda, Ton, 394; (e) Bryn Seion, Gelly, 214; total, 2,556. Several other churches have been established by Bethania and Ebenezer. Siloh has been instrumental in establishing Hermon, Treorchy (414 members), and Soar, Cwmpark' -that is out of the Rhondda Valley there '(246 members,' in addition to the English Congregational Church at Ton. The total accommodation provided by the Congregational church at Pentre is made up as follows:-

[The table reproduced in the evidence is now shown. The * refer to corrections to the totals from the original copy by the stenographer]

The result is that you have got seating accommodation exclusive of vestries of 4,480, and inclusive of vestries it makes 6,000, does it not, altogether? - Yes; I would like to alter the total for Siloh; 25 seats were taken off there.

10068. In round figures it is about 6,000? - Yes.

10069. And the membership is about one-third of that number, 1,902? - Yes.